ERBIL, Kurdistan Region - As the repercussions of the Iran-Israel-US war continue to strain the defense capabilities of Gulf states, a former Ukrainian defense ministry advisor told Rudaw on Sunday that Kyiv is positioning itself as a key defense partner for these nations, offering “economically viable” alternatives to the costly Patriot missile systems used to intercept relatively cheap Iranian-made drones.
Yuriy Sak told Rudaw’s Hawar Jalaladdin that a key challenge for Ukraine in its war with Russia and for Gulf states amid the ongoing Iran war is the disproportionate cost of intercepting loitering munitions.
"One Patriot missile costs over a million US dollars, whereas a single [Iranian-made] Shahed drone costs only $20,000 to $25,000," Sak said. He stressed, "It does not make sense to use such expensive missiles to shoot down these relatively cheap Shahed drones” and that “it is equally inefficient to try to hunt them using F-35s, F-18s, or F-16s, as the missiles for these fighter jets are also very costly."
Instead, the Ukrainian expert noted that Kyiv has "highly technological but inexpensive-to-produce interceptors," adding that "our experts also know exactly how to set up the systems needed to protect critical infrastructure."
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky kicked off an unannounced Gulf tour this week that has yielded concrete results including 10-year defense cooperation agreements with Saudi Arabia and Qatar, and a similar understanding with the United Arab Emirates, officials and media reports confirmed.
Kyiv is also assisting five countries in the region - Jordan, Kuwait, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and the UAE - with combat-tested anti-drone expertise.
According to Sak, tens of Ukrainian military experts are stationed across these Gulf countries to provide support, as “they understand that Ukraine is probably the only country, aside from Russia, that can actually provide them with air defense solutions capable of protecting their cities, their people, and their economies.”
He further noted that at the onset of Russia’s war in Ukraine in February 2022, Moscow relied on “drones they received directly from Iran.” However, “since then, they have set up production lines in Russia, are now producing their own Shahed-type drones, and are improving them very quickly.”
Ukraine, on the other hand, remains in “a constant catch-up game,” Sak emphasized, noting that Kyiv is “open to sharing that knowledge because we understand that stability and security in both Ukraine and the Gulf region [are intertwined].”
The US and Israel launched a coordinated military campaign against Iran on February 28, with US Central Command (CENTCOM) reporting on Saturday that more than 11,000 targets across Iran have been struck so far.
In response, Tehran has carried out thousands of drone and missile strikes across the Middle East, targeting alleged US assets - particularly in Gulf Arab states - as well as launching retaliatory attacks against Israel.
Iran’s response has also involved Iraqi armed groups aligned with the Tehran-led 'Axis of Resistance,' with several factions claiming responsibility for attacks on purported US targets in Iraq and the Kurdistan Region.
According to Rudaw tracking, roughly 500 drone and missile attacks have been launched at the Kurdistan Region since late February, with at least 50 occurring just last night.
The Ukrainian expert advised Erbil to implement physical protections - such as netting over roads and critical infrastructure, mobile fire units equipped with machine guns, emerging laser weapons, and AI-assisted targeting systems - to counter low-flying drones.
He also urged residents in the Kurdistan Region to heed air raid sirens and seek shelter immediately.
“Even when a drone is shot down, falling debris can be lethal,” he warned. “Do not stand near windows or watch the interceptions. The minimum safety requirement is to position yourself between two walls, preferably with no windows.”
Following is the full transcript of the interview with Yuriy Sak, former advisor to Ukraine’s defense ministry.
Rudaw: What has Ukraine learned in its war against Iranian-made drones used by Russia that it can share with Gulf countries?
Yuriy Sak: Good afternoon and thank you for having me. Of course, for Ukraine, the eruption of this war in the Middle East is a big obstacle because we understand that our partners, including the United States of America, will have to inadvertently redirect some of their resources, including air defense missiles and interceptors, to the Gulf region. But at the same time, we see this as an opportunity for Ukraine and the Gulf countries to deepen and develop our cooperation in the defense sector. This is why President [Volodymyr] Zelensky is now on a tour in the Gulf and has already visited many countries. There are up to 50 Ukrainian military experts in each Gulf country who are helping those countries protect their energy and critical infrastructure. Of course, any war is a tragedy, and we hope that this will come to an end soon. But at the same time, we have learned in our war over these last four years that we have to really see this as an opportunity as well to improve our defense capability.
How can Ukraine transfer its counter-drone technology to countries like the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates?
We have to understand that when we talk about the transfer of our expertise and our systems, we are mainly referring to the interception of Shahed-type drones. Just for your information, since the beginning of this year, Russia has launched more than 3,000 such drones against Ukraine. We are attacked by these drones on a nightly basis. For example, last night there was an attack on one of the largest Ukrainian cities, Odesa. Two people were killed, and significant damage was caused.
Of course, our engineers have been working very hard over the past two years to come up with solutions to counter this threat. We understand very well that it is not economically viable to intercept these relatively cheap Shahed drones with very expensive Patriot missiles, for example. It is equally inefficient to try to hunt down these drones using F-35s, F-18s, or F-16s, as the missiles for these fighter jets are also very expensive.
So our solutions are of a different kind - highly technological but inexpensive-to-produce interceptors. Our experts also know very well how to set up the systems required to protect critical infrastructure.
Can cooperation between Ukraine and Gulf countries change the balance of power in the region?
It is our understanding that none of the countries in the region expected this [war to break out], and of course, they are now trying to find ways to protect themselves in the future. They understand that Ukraine is probably the only country, aside from Russia, that can actually provide them with air defense solutions capable of protecting their cities, their people, and their economies. We understand that the Gulf countries are trying to catch up and improve their defense capabilities, and we will do our best to help them achieve that.
How can Ukraine help Gulf countries in bringing down these drones?
We possess technology that is considerably cheaper than Western analogues. One Patriot missile costs over a million US dollars, whereas one Shahed drone costs only 20,000 to 25,000 US dollars. It does not make sense to use such expensive missiles to shoot down these inexpensive Shahed drones. We can provide our partners in the Gulf with technology that is cheap and easy to scale. This is what our military experts and engineers are doing in the Gulf now. They are trying to transfer this knowledge to our partners.
Of course, in return, as our president has said, we are concerned about the possibility of a shortage of diesel fuel in Ukraine. This will be a two-way street, and we hope that, in exchange for our readiness to support our partners in the Gulf, they will also be ready to support us here in Ukraine.
For Ukraine, is it more difficult to shoot down Russian drones or Iranian ones?
Russia began this campaign [in Ukraine] two and a half years ago, if not earlier, using drones they received directly from Iran. Since then, they have been able to set up production lines in Russia, and unfortunately, they are now producing their own Shahed-type drones. More importantly, they are improving them very quickly.
For example, the latest information from the past couple of days indicates that our military has seen Shahed drones in the skies over Ukraine carrying landmines. These drones fly over Ukrainian cities and drop landmines. We have also seen that some of the newer, Russian-produced versions are equipped with jet engines. They are very fast, which makes them much more difficult to intercept using mobile fire groups.
It is a technological race against time - a constant catch-up game. The innovation cycle is extremely fast. Every two weeks, we are facing new technology in our skies and on the front lines. This experience is invaluable for all our partners, as we have been dealing with this threat for more than three years. We are open to sharing that knowledge because we understand that stability and security in both Ukraine and the Gulf region are in the interest of all of us.
What is the difference between those drones and the ones that are connected via fiber-optic cables?
Fiber-optic drones are not deep-strike drones; they are used along the front lines. Modern versions can fly up to 50 kilometers. To explain it simply, a fiber-optic drone carries a payload - sometimes around five kilograms, sometimes a bit more - and is connected by a very thin fiber-optic cable. This makes the drone resistant to electronic warfare, spoofing, and jamming, as none of these methods work against it.
That is why they are more lethal, because there are very limited means to counter them. However, they are smaller and not used for long-range missions. They are typically deployed along the front lines, in what we call a “kill zone” - an area roughly 10 to 15 kilometers deep. That is the main difference. They are also much smaller than Shahed drones.
Are wired drones stronger than the others?
Shahed-type drones are more powerful because they can carry a much heavier payload, meaning that on impact they can destroy buildings and infrastructure. We experience such strikes on a daily basis. As a result, there was a news report just today that Ukrainian trains are now regularly stopped, and passengers have to be evacuated en route in the middle of fields due to the threat of drone attacks. This affects every Ukrainian city.
In Kyiv, where I am today, we had an air raid siren from early morning until the afternoon, and very likely we will have more in the evening. These Shahed drones can fly long distances, up to 3,000 kilometers. Typically, during a combined attack on Ukraine, Russia launches these drones from multiple directions, including the northeast and the south.
Just a few days ago, we experienced one of the worst attacks, when more than 1,000 drones were launched at Ukraine in less than 24 hours. Fortunately, thanks to the technology we have, the interception rate on that occasion was about 95 percent. We are constantly under threat, but we are also continuously improving our ability to counter it.
What technology is best for taking down those wired drones, especially since they are being used in attacks on the Kurdistan Region?
That is a difficult question. In some parts of Ukraine, important roads are protected with nets. Entire stretches of road are covered, creating tunnel-like structures made of specialized netting that protect vehicles moving along them from these drones. Similarly, some critical infrastructure facilities use this tactic by covering buildings or key assets with nets.
There are also mobile fire groups. For example, a 4x4 vehicle equipped with a mounted machine gun can be very effective, especially during daylight, as these drones often fly at low altitudes and can be shot down. When the first Iranian drones attacked Kyiv three years ago, police forces used ordinary pistols and rifles to try to bring them down. However, the more powerful the weapon, the greater the chances of success.
In Ukraine today, more than 900 companies are involved in the defense sector, with over 600 focusing on drone and counter-drone technologies. Laser weapons are another area being developed by our defense industry. The use of artificial intelligence for targeting drones could also prove highly effective.
I would emphasize again that this is a very dynamic environment. Modern warfare evolves rapidly on a daily basis. To remain protected, you must be agile, flexible, and able to move quickly in order to innovate.
What is your advice for Kurdistan on countering drones, given that air defense systems are weak in some areas?
I am sure that the government of Kurdistan provides the people of Kurdistan with information about incoming threats. Advice number one is: do not be complacent. If you hear an air raid siren, please go to a shelter. We have seen this in Ukraine so many times: even when a drone is actually shot down, when it falls, it can injure and kill people. Even if it explodes in mid-air and only debris or parts of the drone fall, they fall at high speed and can be lethal. Don’t stand near windows; don’t watch how these drones are flying and how they’re being intercepted. If you hear an air raid siren, seek shelter. If the shelter is too far, make sure you’re at least standing between two walls. That’s a rule that every Ukrainian child knows by now. The minimum safety requirement during an attack is that you have to be positioned between two walls, preferably with no windows, because that increases your chances of not being injured.